Perry said, "Of course he was present because he is omnipresent."
The Watchtower disagrees, “The Bible does not teach that God is omnipresent, or present everywhere at all times,” (Awake! May 2013, page 15).
Ultimate Axiom
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Axiom
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28
The Creation of Eve
by jws infor those of you who believe in the bible, have you ever seriously thought about the events that led up to the creation of eve?.
genesis 2 - 18 the lord god said, it is not good for the man to be alone.
i will make a helper suitable for him.. .
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Are all JWs united in their beliefs?
by enigma1863 inso i used to think that all witnesses believed the same exact thing but i have heard some claims that they believe things i'm not familiar with.
do you know if it's true?
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Ultimate Axiom
I doubt very much if there is any religion on earth where all the adherents believe the same thing. In some this is tolerated, even encouraged, in others, like JWs of course, it's the opposite. Obviously JWs all believe the same core doctrines, (no trinity, no hell, no immortal spirit, these are the last days, the GB are semi-divine etc, etc), but there are bound to be differences on peripheral doctrine, because, as someone has already said, most of them don’t even know what the full set of doctrines is. And even is they did, they would still have to go back to the latest Watchtower on the subject to make sure their belief is up to date.
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The Creation of Eve
by jws infor those of you who believe in the bible, have you ever seriously thought about the events that led up to the creation of eve?.
genesis 2 - 18 the lord god said, it is not good for the man to be alone.
i will make a helper suitable for him.. .
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Ultimate Axiom
Interesting jws, and I am one who hadn't seriously thought about it when he was a believer. Whatever actually happened, it was clear to God that he had created man incomlete, so he created a woman, and then man was finished.
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How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
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Ultimate Axiom
Why is it everytime a Christian, muslim etc etc.. say something it will offend the athiests?
Nothing Christians or Muslims say 'offends' the average atheist - unlike of course the Christians and Muslims who can get whipped up into a murderous frenzy when their cherished prophet is ridiculed by an atheist.
As regards hell, I was seriously offended by that slanderous teaching when I was a Christian, now that I no longer believe it doesn't offend me in the slightest, and nor does anything else a believer has to say.
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"The Devil is at Work!"
by HeyThere ini consider myself a christian.
seriously did not even think that jw was that much different...but now i know better and it has my mind spinning.
i have stopped answering questions, say my own prayers to god at the meetings, and plastr on a fake smile.
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Ultimate Axiom
HeyThere, you face a difficult task, because even when you point out some perfectly good advice in a WT publication, a JW will find it almost impossible to apply it to the FDS. e.g “when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.” (Watchtower, July 15, 2014, page 14). “Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet’ of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?” (Watchtower, April 1, 1972, page 197).
And this Awake! paragraph is absolutely correct - “there have been those in times past who predicted an “end to the world,” even announcing a specific date. Yet, nothing happened. The “end” did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying.” (Awake! October 8, 1968, page 23).
And as all fulfilment of the 1914 generation prophecy has now passed, a quote from one of Rutherford’s books fits perfectly, “If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfilment is past, then these prophets are proven false”. (Prophecy, 1929, page 22).
But as Kate said, JWfacts.com has got loads of this sort of material.
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How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
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Ultimate Axiom
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the only people worthy of hell are those who advocate it (although in truth, even they don’t deserve it). I hate God, so as far as the hell-fire believers are concerned I will be going there. So even after a trillion, to the power trillion, to the power trillion, to the power trillion millenniums, I am still no closer to the end of my agonies than I was after the first second. And if you think that is punishment fitting the crime then I would say that there is something seriously wrong with you, and you should seek professional help.
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Unsung Heroes of J.W net
by new hope and happiness inbeen on this site 8 months now, but not on a daily basis.
recently discoverd a poster named processor, loved his tread on the life of jesus.
anyway the guys posts never seem to make long threads.
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Ultimate Axiom
I don't know about unsung heros, but the thread that did the most for me (so far) was:
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The Apostasy Within
by Ultimate Axiom inin the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.
still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.
as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.
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Ultimate Axiom
cha ching, ‘quote mining’ cuts both ways, which is a good reason for doing it, for then the JW must confront the conflict. For example, consider the following three quotes that all JWs would have to endorse;
A: “… really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?” (Is This Life All There Is? 1974, page 46).
B: “When a Christian phrases things in such a way that he inwardly knows is leading brothers to a wrong conclusion, to believe something that is really not true, not accurate, how do you think God feels?” (Live With Jehovah’s Day in Mind, 2006, pages 114).
C: “… there have been those in times past who predicted an “end to the world,” even announcing a specific date. Yet, nothing happened. The “end” did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying.” (Awake! October 8, 1968, page 23).
All three of these can be supplemented with other quotes from the FDS that show that they stand guilty on all three counts, therefore in order to accept the above, they must reject the FDS - they face a similar pridicament to Vega in the first Star Trek film. Here’s a sample from many thousands of quotes that exist, that are already familiar to most on this forum, but I’ll give them for any that may not be familiar;
A: “At the evening meeting Russell determined that now, since they had evidenced their interest in Christ’s return and … his presence, it was necessary for him to go deeper into this matter and talk to them about the time that these things would take place. This he did, pointing to 1914.” (Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, 1959, pages 35 and 36). Not for one moment in his entire life did Russell point to 1914 as the year Christ’s return and his second presence would take place. It was a quarter of a century after Russell was dead before the Watchtower assigned that event to 1914.
B: “For over thirty years before [1914] … Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of “the appointed times of the nations” and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule.” (Watchtower, February 15, 1966, page 103). While it is true that years before 1914 Jehovah’s Witnesses declared that the Gentile Times would end in 1914, to imply that this was also the case for the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule is deliberately misleading, at that time they believed the latter event occured in 1878.
C: “in 1914 … the kingdom of God ... will have broken in pieces and consumed all earthly kingdoms.” (Zion’s Watch Tower, August, 1880, page 2). “The parallel, therefore, would establish definitely that the harvest would close forty years thereafter; to wit, in the spring of A. D. 1918.” (Watchtower, October 1, 1917, page 292). “The Scriptures clearly indicate that the climax is the fall of Satan’s empire and the full establishment of the Messianic kingdom. This climax being reached by 1925” (Golden Age, January 4, 1922, page 217). “Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these last days will undergo fulfilment” (Watchtower, May 1, 1968, page 272)
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The Apostasy Within
by Ultimate Axiom inin the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.
still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.
as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.
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Ultimate Axiom
Make Lemonade – I take your point and accept that JWs have never claimed to be inspired, infallible prophets in the same sense as they regard the Biblical prophets, but they do claim to be “true messengers of Jehovah, who makes the messages He delivers through them come true” (Watchtower, May 1, 1977, page 8). And they have also said, “It is vital that we … respond to the directions of the ‘slave’ as we would to the voice of God” (Watchtower, June 15, 1957, page 371). Thus for all practical purposes, a JW must treat the FDS as if it were an inspired prophet – to argue otherwise is purely semantics, what’s the difference between a ‘true messenger’ and a ‘prophet’? And although (as you say) we can find quotes to support opposing positions on this, a JW can only take one position in practice.
wasblind – sorry, I see your point now. I agree with all you have said except one thing: Jehovah’s Witnesses did NOT suggest any dates and never have, it was the faithful and discrete slave that did. Whenever the Watchtower makes some pusillanimous admission that they got it wrong it always passes the blame onto JWs as a whole. JWs only accepted what the FDS said, the FDS did all the speculating, suggesting, prophesying etc, but they are too spineless to say ‘we got it wrong’, because that would damage their claim as being a ‘true messenger’, so they pass the blame onto JWs as a whole. There are dozens of examples of this, and we should not let them get away with it.
villagegirl – thanks for your post, but to me the real issue is, can we undermine the idea that the FDS is God’s true messenger. And if we start from the JWs position that it is, and that we must therefore follow what the FDS says (as if it were the word of God), then we reach a self-destroying spiral when we follow their words at the start of this thread ‘when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them” I don’t think we will ever convince a JW that their interpretation of a scripture is wrong, so no point batting scriptures back and forth, finding something that has no basis in scripture at all suits my purpose better, they have no verses to quote is such a situation.
ablebodiedman – I like that one.
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The Apostasy Within
by Ultimate Axiom inin the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.
still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.
as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.
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Ultimate Axiom
Vanderhoven7 - I like the application of Matt 15:9 to the examples you have given, that is definitely worth more analysis.
BluesBrother - you know I think he is, which is why I will meet with him. If truth be told I believe I am far more interested in hearing his views on what I have been collecting for him, than he is on hearing mine.
wasblind - "since Jehovah's Witnesses are not prophets , according to their own words" I disagree with you and Make Lemonade here. It might be a 42 year old quote, but in the Watchtower, April 1, 1972, page 197, they said, “does Jehovah have a prophet to ... declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. … This ‘prophet’ was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses.” I am not aware that they have rescinded this position, but I'm happy to be proved wrong if someone can supply more up to date 'light'.